Treating Depression: Is there a placebo effect?

[Luc]

Since we have some professionals on board here, this question; which is (on average) more powerful a mechanism - placebo or nocebo?

[Sheila]

Ha! Very good question!

My first thought is that in my own life, nocebo seems to be more powerful than placebo….Alas....

I have no idea if there’s any research on this, but my inclination would be that this is, unfortunately, true for a lot of people.

Especially if you broaden nocebo to include any belief you espouse that’s not in your best interests. Deepak Chopra calls these “premature cognitive commitments” and gives the example of raising working elephants in India. If you tie them to a tree with a rope when they’re little, they will grow up to believe that the same rope will still hold them as adults. The reality is that, as adults, they’re strong enough simply to uproot any tree you tie them to. But they don’t *believe* they are, so they comply with the tie-up.

In one psychoanalytic sub-school called “Control Mastery” they call this “pathogenic beliefs,” or false beliefs – kind of like superstitions – that you developed, based on repeated, early childhood experiences, which you now erroneously believe apply to the whole world. For example, one might think -- my father was critical of me, therefore I assume all authority figures are thinking critical thoughts about me. If this false belief is strong enough, you could, for example, meet a new boss who is merely busy and distracted but you mistakenly assume they’re feeling critical towards you.

I don’t know. It seems like at this point in our evolution we’re more vulnerable to nocebo. But, on the other hand, if you look at it philosophically, then, theoretically, it should be evenly balanced. Think of the yin – yang symbol. By definition, there is as much good as bad in the universe. So, placebo is working just as often as nocebo.

It’s just that I take for granted all the good things going on around me all the time – all the ways I unconsciously *expect* to helped by the universe and so I am. I just want even more good stuff!

There’s also a lot of research showing that the placebo effect is on the rise all over the planet over the last several decades. They’re not sure why. My theory is morphic fields or the hundredth monkey effect.

What do you think? What have you noticed?


<< a person who really believes he can bend a steel bar and so he can....

[Luc]

Very interesting stuff, Sheila.

What do you think? What have you noticed?

It amazes me how it all is interlinked, and how, in fact, psyche and soma, are one and the same thing. And how "everything influences everything else", so to say.

When I saw this emoticon you used, I remembered of something fascinating, and also related with human body, though more on a physical/hormonal level. There's this phenomenon called "hysterical strength". Though the mainstream (along with Wikipedia) doesn't seem to fully embrace it (realizing how we all live in matrix, and how TPTB rig it all, I'm highly sceptical of them being sceptical. Though, I must admit, I used to be sceptical, too, but only until the moment when one of my students some years back (a doctor, and an absolutely trustworthy person) told me several stories he had witnessed with his own eyes during his work in a hospital (he was in charge of one of the wards). There were many accident survivors brought to the place in a state of shock. Some of them would exhibit incredible fits of super human strength, and those were so truly mind-blowing it went totally against anything my school education had taught me. At first, I was in total denial, but then, after this doctor explained what sorts of biochemical mechanisms are at work in such situations, and after I had done some googling, everything started adding up. Have you researched into it, Sheila? I would be really interested in your opinion here.

[Sheila]

I haven’t researched this, Luc, but I have stumbled across some info. I think there is more than one way for this anomalous strength to occur.

1) Sure, adrenaline and stuff can temporarily alter your body in a pronounced way.

2) There are some people who may be genetically different from the average who can tolerate more pounds per square inch strain on their muscles than should be mechanically possible.

3) Psychokinesis. There have been cases of people (usually teens or young adults) who were unconsciously very upset and were unconsciously causing heavy objects to move in their environment without any mechanical means.

Apparently, almost anyone can do spoon-bending if you are in a group that is open to it and in good spirits.

4) According to James Carpenter’s “First Sight” model, psi is how we do absolutely everything. In that model, there is no difference between items 1, 2, and 3 above. They just look different through our cultural lens.

5) Having said that, there do seem to be methods of anomalous strength / movement that seem to use the physical body more, and methods that seem to not use the physical body much (although brainwaves are probably happening).

Do you have any more cool anecdotes?!