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[alex]

Hello Stan,thank you for your support; my english is not good either but I´m sure we´ll manage.

13 years taking Paxil for GAD....13 years is a lot! well, for me.. I have so many questions for you people that I really don´t know where to start.

As I told you my main problem is anxiety...fear, insecurity plus depression, not severe but it´s there.A Dr. told me that "now" they know that anxiety and depression always come together....here is something to share with you people.

Well despite of my emotional problems I decided to go on and step on a stage and sing...! because I think I have the gift and I could not let it waste because of my problems.

And I did it fighting the avoidance behavior and became a performer (with alcohol help)

After I sober up (that´s another story) my problems with anxiety continued and I handle it with very small amounts of CLONAZEPAM, exercise and got into this relationship that never worked very well and after 15 years of bumpy road we ended pretty much hating each other, we split, at that time a financial catastrofe occured in my family...and I crashed into a very nasty depression.I won´t go into details but it was very bad.

I tried to stay out of SSRIS but at the end I thought I was gonna died so I started taking EFFEXXOR xr and let me tell that it saved my life.

That was 4 years ago, at the begining, and after being so ill the med made feel good, for the first time in my life I didn´t have the need of benzos and besides the sexual problems and tiredness, I was happy because life came back to me.

But I have noticed that I am more tired,apathetic and anxiety is coming back strongly.I struggle every morning because I just can´t move my body! If I don´t make a real effort, I can´t leave the bed, then guilt gets me, I feel like a lazy man, but the strange thing is that even the things that I used to like a lot, exercise, sports,hobbys, I feel sadly indifferent about it.

I went to the shrwink (is this vocabulary ok?) and don´t like them very much... and I told him more or less this same thing I´m telling you and he told me that I probalby I needed more med 225mgs Effexor.I told him no and I asked him when would I be able to go off the drug;he couldn´t answer he said that I was in "remission"

Remission? I asked what is remission? does it mean I have to take the drug for a long time or even for life? and he said:yes.

So I am confused, scared and I have A LOT of questions for you people but now I´m going to bed. Blessings, A.

[Cosette123]

Hello Stan,thank you for your support; my english is not good either but I´m sure we´ll manage.

13 years taking Paxil for GAD....13 years is a lot! well, for me.. I have so many questions for you people that I really don´t know where to start.

As I told you my main problem is anxiety...fear, insecurity plus depression, not severe but it´s there.A Dr. told me that "now" they know that anxiety and depression always come together....here is something to share with you people.

Well despite of my emotional problems I decided to go on and step on a stage and sing...! because I think I have the gift and I could not let it waste because of my problems.

And I did it fighting the avoidance behavior and became a performer (with alcohol help)

After I sober up (that´s another story) my problems with anxiety continued and I handle it with very small amounts of CLONAZEPAM, exercise and got into this relationship that never worked very well and after 15 years of bumpy road we ended pretty much hating each other, we split, at that time a financial catastrofe occured in my family...and I crashed into a very nasty depression.I won´t go into details but it was very bad.

I tried to stay out of SSRIS but at the end I thought I was gonna died so I started taking EFFEXXOR xr and let me tell that it saved my life.

That was 4 years ago, at the begining, and after being so ill the med made feel good, for the first time in my life I didn´t have the need of benzos and besides the sexual problems and tiredness, I was happy because life came back to me.

But I have noticed that I am more tired,apathetic and anxiety is coming back strongly.I struggle every morning because I just can´t move my body! If I don´t make a real effort, I can´t leave the bed, then guilt gets me, I feel like a lazy man, but the strange thing is that even the things that I used to like a lot, exercise, sports,hobbys, I feel sadly indifferent about it.

I went to the shrwink (is this vocabulary ok?) and don´t like them very much... and I told him more or less this same thing I´m telling you and he told me that I probalby I needed more med 225mgs Effexor.I told him no and I asked him when would I be able to go off the drug;he couldn´t answer he said that I was in "remission"

Remission? I asked what is remission? does it mean I have to take the drug for a long time or even for life? and he said:yes.

So I am confused, scared and I have A LOT of questions for you people but now I´m going to bed. Blessings, A.

Hi Alex,
You will surely have several answers from the other members but I want to give you my opinion about your problems:
you seem to be in the pattern that we all know here:the tolerance(Which is not a remission). Your psy doctor is wrong when he says you will have to take the drug for life.I can even say that it is "criminal" to think that. As you are not well he will give you more and more "meds" which will make you worse and worse. It is time to stop the meds very slowly .If you really want to stop you will find here a lot of advices and friendship which will help you a lot.

[Sheila]

Hola, Alex!

Wow! Congratulations on your performing career!

You just took a couple of very big steps just by thinking that your medication might be your problem, and by joining a discussion forum. Now, it would probably be a good idea to give yourself some time to study all the information we have here, and at the other links on our home page, ask us questions, and develop your own ideas about what is right for you.

To help us advise you, let me clarify – Clonazepam – when was your last dose? Do you still take it occasionally? Alcohol – are you still using it? How much? Any other medications?

As Cosette said, we do not share your doctor’s belief that you have incurable depression nor that you must take a medication for the rest of your life.

Anxiety and depression are common human experiences. Everybody has some anxiety or depression at some point. Some people have a lot, and really need help with it. But there is no new “formula” about how they always “come together.” Your doctor is over-simplifying things.

Also, as Cosette said, the medications can sometimes give some relief temporarily, but, over time, the benefits tend to wear off, and the side effects tend to increase. This leaves you dependent on medications which are no longer helping you, and which are, in fact, causing you problems. You sensed this yourself.

It is definitely possible to taper off these medications. For some people, this is easy; for some, it is difficult. And there are many ways to effectively help yourself with the original reasons you took the Effexor.

Ah – one more thought – the Clonazepam may have contributed to destabilizing you, just as the Effexor is causing you problems now. This is how people end up on the medication path for life – one medication causes problems, and so another is prescribed to address those problems, etc.

But, again, people *do* get off these drugs successfully and find real health and happiness!

[Luc]

Hey, Alex. Sheila has already comprehensively discussed all the main points. Indeed, even if those drugs help at the very beginning, somewhere down the road they are counter-productive, often leaving us in a worse state than before starting drugs. The main thing would be for you now to just look around the forum, read the all the materials there are, and have some time to get accustomed with it all. Then you may start thinking about tapering - of course, the final decision always belongs to you. We will be here to help you in the process. Take care!

[alex]

Hi Sheila,hi everybody;Ok, let´s see if I can organize my ideas.I think I´ve done an amount of insight work that had showed me things that didn´t see before or to see or feel diferently about these things.One of them is alcohol;after years of strugling,AA meetings (I learned a lot from them) I came to the simple conclusion that booze is not for me.No more fighthing.The same happend with other stuff like anger, resentment...so no I don´t drink alcohol.

Sheila as I told you there was a time before the negative events and depression, when I was handling anxiety that in that time was mild, with small amounts of Clonazepam: 1mg when needed or most of the time non; so I don´t know, it was small dose and that was 4 years ago.I´m not taking benzos because the Effexxor helped me with anxiety and I was like wow! no anxiety and no benzos, even in small doses.

But now I feel that things are changing and besides the known side effects like apathy,tiredness,decreased libido and I don´t mean libido just for sex that I enjoy very much,but all plesaureable things; is like my senses are num....have you heard the expression "happy potato?" ok besides this,my old pal anxiety is showing its ugly head again, so there you have it.

Ok, question: let´s pretend I get off the med.where am I gonna be regarding my psychiatric condition once I get clean? what can I espect? wil I learn these things on the process?

How can I be sure these things I feel is because the med is not working any more?Shwrink says 4 years is to soon to talk about leaving the med, so I aked when and he couldn´t answer me.

Today I´m feeling good after a little anxiety storm I had because I had to record some music and has been some time since I did some recording and as I told you,that always give me stress;which takes me to another question: do med. "amplifies" any distress you may have?

[Sheila]

You’re thinking things through really well, Alex. You’re asking really good questions.

OK, it has been a long time since your last alcohol and clonzapam – this will make things easier for you now.

That’s so cool you recorded some music. Yes, “amplify” is an excellent word. I would say that some anxiety and excitement about making a recording would be normal, right? But, the meds can take whatever you’re feeling and amplify it. I remember another performer saying that she used to be an adrenaline junkie before meds – loved the thrill *and* nervousness of performing – but came to really dislike the feelings that came with performing due to the meds.

“Happy potato”! That’s cute! But, unfortunately, yes, the numbness and apathy you’re observing are classic signs of your body becoming worn out by the drug. Basically, these drugs work kind of like legal speed (amphetamine). They “mine” (extraer? explotar?) your adrenal glands. Eventually, your adrenal glands get worn out and tired. This is a simplification, of course. The drugs do a lot more to your body. But this is one of the things they do.

I think the best way to become convinced that the med is 1) not helping as much as before, and 2) causing more problems than before is to read lots of other people’s stories, and notice the overwhelming pattern. I think this is what convinced me. We are a new, small forum, and we can point you to other forums with more people. Also, have you found any Spanish-language forums? If so, can you give us the links?

By the way, how did you find us?

There are also some good books in English, and some may have been translated into Spanish by now.

Lastly, it’s very hard to know where you really are in regard to your original psychological problems. It sounds like you’ve already done a lot of excellent work on yourself, plus you have matured and gained more life experience. I think you will have to taper slowly and see what comes up. But, before you even start to taper, I would try to get ready by starting a good diet, vitamin, exercise, relaxation / meditation, and other self-care regimen. We can also help you with those things.

[Barbara]

Alex, you have clearly had an epiphany, through your own questioning of your psych med experience. And it has brought you to the IAWP forum where you can get more knowledge for your investigation.

I would like to recommend to you a couple of books:

“Anatomy Of An Epidemic” by Robert Whitaker

“The most important book on psychiatry in a generation......I couldn’t help but draw comparisons to Rachel Carson’s “Silent Spring.”
--Huffington Post

And, “The Emperor’s New Drugs” (Exploding the Antidepressant Myth) by Irving Kirsch, Ph.D.

“The Emperor’s New Drugs absolutely dismantles the case for antidepressants as a pharmacologically effective treatment.” --Psychology Today

[alex]

Thank you for your advice, I´ll try to get the books

[Luc]

Alex, you have clearly had an epiphany, through your own questioning of your psych med experience. And it has brought you to the IAWP forum where you can get more knowledge for your investigation.

This is the first and most important step there is, Alex. We all here had wondered for years on end "Why do we feel the way we feel? Why do we suffer so much? Why our depressions are so stubborn and never ending?" Then, at some point of our lives, we realized that it's THE drug in itself that causes it all. This epiphany offered us a chance for gettng our lives back. For the most part I consider myself priviledged and lucky to have learnt there is a way out of this nightmare, and that removing the drug from my life may change things for better.

[Cosette123]

You are right Luc:the most important is to be "drug free" even if we are still suffering .A life without drug is better than a life on drugs.