Nancy's Journal

[Luc]

Please, do *not* blame yourself, Nancy. Look at it this way; you now know why you've been feeling the way you feel. That's the first, MOST important step. Everything can be fixed, changed for the better. You did all you could with the knowledge about these drugs you had then. Each of us here has made the same "mistake" and by "mistake" I mean trusting doctors. This notwithstanding you will get your real self back.

[Junior]

It is ok to be angry at the doctors and Big Pharma in particular, but you didn't do anything wrong. Most of us were raised to believe in our doctors and to go to them for help. Not much point doing that if we refuse the medicine they prescribe, is there?

My story might help a little. I consider myself a genuine case for anti-depressants ...
There is a strong family history of mental illness. Mum - bipolar 2, my sister - bipolar 1, maternal uncle - bipolar 1, maternal grandmother - depression and anxiety
I first started suffering GAD at about 16 - way back in 1979 when it wasn't even in the DSM or ICD! Lived with it for many years. The doctors could only prescribe short term doses of benzos (which I always took responsibly and to which I never got addicted) and / or a certificate for a couple of days off work - sometimes just the latter. It was hard. I experienced many of the symptoms - naturally - that people in w/d describe, depersonalisation, derealisation, withdrawal into my 'self', feelings like my nerves had snapped, etc. I formed the opinion that I was weak because I couldn't handle stress - until I gradually came to see that other people just weren't experiencing the crap I had to go through - over and over again. Then... I had my first episode of major depression at 18. Didn't know what it was. Couldn't find the words to tell anyone - they wouldn't form in my head - and somehow managed to get through on my own. I believe I had the melancholia I've read about since. And irritability, as the literature now says mostly happens in adolescent depression. Anyhow, it went undiagnosed and untreated and somehow lifted on its own after about 10 weeks.
THe GAD continued, off and on. Another 2 depressive episodes in my 20s - one for no apparent reason, the other a reaction to life stress- both treated with tricyclics.
My last depressive episode was treated with paroxetine and lifted in just 2 weeks. Brilliant. ANd without the horrible dry mouth of the tricyclics. It was like a wonder drug for me. I elected to stay on it. With my history I thought I was doing the right thing.
I went back to school in my late 30s to study psychology and along the way discovered that GAD actually has a name! Of more interest, according to studies, paroxetine was the most effective 'treatment' for it. I really thought I was on the right track. Until late 2008 when I developed a tolerance.....

So you see, even as a genuine sufferer of mental illness, and having done all the research - it still turned out to be wrong. I don't regret taking Paxil initially because it helped me enormously at the time (1997 was a hell of a year and it was not surprising that I succumbed to depression) but I do regret staying on it. Now I can beat myself up for doing that - or I can accept that I made my decision with the information I had at the time.

I would urge you to do the same. You made a decision, with the wrong information, and you can't blame yourself for that. Incidentallly, I've known for 4 years that I'm addicted to Paxil, yet my GP - who is generally very good - has only recently admitted that Paxil is one of the hardest to get off. Big Pharma, in my opinion, are the ones to blame.

[nancys]

I am starting to think that the emotional issues that my therapist brought to the surface 28 years ago and caused me instant suicidality and rendered me flat in bed and on disability are back and that is why i am suffering so much. Of course the only reason i wemt to threrapy was to go through emotional issues. Then she told me that drugs eould help me do therapy so that is only reason i took them. I think now that i am off drugs this is all back and this is not mostly withdrawal. Or it is both or whatever. Problem is i have no insurance so i can not get any trauma therapy. I am so angry. I paid her to do her job and she did not work on these issues. Are there any other ways to grt over thses types of deep family emtional abuse issues from infancy/toddlerhood than trauma therapy. I have had several therapists but they have ignored my deep pain. I finally had a good one who went straight to it right before my insurance ended. That is why i know the other therapists ignored it even though i was expressing all of it. Anyway. Do u think this is old issues. Anyone else have old issues arise after off meds. Or do u think mostly drug wothdrawal. Any treatment ideas for mental health without insurance. I am completely nonfunctional and totally suicidal. I am getting medi-cal asap and considering reinstatement. I dont think i can get any individual therapy on medical

[Luc]

Nancy, 99.9% of what you are experiencing right now is caused by WD. Even if you hadn't had *any* "emotional issues" 28 years ago, your brain, being in WD, would make those up, create new ones. Even people who had ADs prescribed for physical ailments, suffer the same way. What you are going through is chemically-induced. The most important thing now is, if only possible, to reinstate and stabilise, then, very very slowly, taper the drugs. If you felt it could additionally help you, you could, then, try the therapy. But, again, very very few therapists know about WD, and they will use the techniques helpful only in the case of those not suffering from WD.

This thread will help you a lot; http://antidepressantwithdrawal.info...-Neuro-emotion Also, please search on the forum for; ruminations, obsessive thoughts, anxiety.

[Junior]

Any issues you had will be magnified a zillion times during w/d. It can be hard knowing what is real and what is not. I've only had a little of this but I recall feeling absolutely devastated by the fact I'm not going to have grandchildren, really really low, hopeless, wondering if life was all worth it- when I've already dealt with all this. These feelings went away after a few days and have never returned. It was my reaction to that particular drop during my taper. What you are feeling will be a lot more than I did because you are dealing with multiple w/d.

[Sheila]

nancys -- To me, the fact that you say that the childhood issues hit you so very hard when they first came out in therapy suggests that you are dealing with some very intense trauma. Then, you say you have never really gotten the help you needed to work on this trauma very much. Therefore, my best guess is that what you are experiencing now is a combination of the unresolved severe early trauma magnified by w/d. It is both.

Although it’s nearly impossible to get a therapist who knows anything about w/d, I do think you can get significant support with the emerging early trauma, and it would be a good idea to do that.

There are 12-step programs for abuse survivors. That’s free. There are therapy training clinics attached to a lot of grad schools. Those can be very low fee. Many cities and counties have subsidized therapy programs, where the local government pays therapists to see clients.

Then there’s bibliotherapy. You can get a good deal of validation, reassurance, support, and “holding” from the right self-help books.

This is another reason why it would probably be a good idea for you to reinstate some of your meds and re-taper more slowly. You can’t just tough this out. And taking good care of yourself by making yourself safer and more comfortable, and setting up a good plan for how to heal is, in itself, a transformative act of self-healing. You’re taking charge of your health and deciding you deserve good care.

[nancys]

Thank you everyone, i have decided to reinstate due to severe suicidality and incapacitation. Now problem is my insurance changed so government insurance does not cover my old ssti which i beleive is what i need. Have felt horrible since got off ssri may 1 2012. Plus i dont beleive i ever needed lamictal or that it helped me and no doctors understand why i was ever put on it either. The seroquel i now know kept me quite debilitated for years so i dont want to go back to that. Whatever. Anyway the doctor recommends celexa generic since effexor not covered. Any thoughts. Plus she recommends trazadone for sleep instead of seroquel if i need it. She wants me to start on 20mg celexa. And 50 trazaxdone. I know i went off too fast. I am totally dying, drowning. I tell self should touh it out but even u guys say not to so i am going to listen. My life was pretty bad before reduced and the went broke after got rid of ssri. So i should take some drugs.

[nancys]

Thank you Sheila. So do you think the have covered up the feelings. I went to clinic today. Hopefully i can get free or cheap therapy somewhere but not much hope. Plus assume it wont be any good. I feel so screwed. I get medi-care in july. Do decent therapists take medi-care.

[Sheila]

Considering you have been off the Effexor since May 2012, right? And considering how bad Effexor is. And considering that another member Mixter recently switched successfully from Effexor to Celexa to continue his taper. I’m gonna say this might be a good idea.

However, what about just doing 10 mg Celexa? Your doc may not realize that your main objective in taking it is to protect you from *some* but not all of the w/d effects of the other meds. It is not your objective to treat depression. IOW, you don’t need “a clinical dose” – you need a protective-from-w/d dose.

Also, I see no reason to add the Trazadone. Usually, it’s easier to w/d from, but there are exceptions, and your system has already been exposed to too many meds. How is your sleep? What about trying some other approaches first?

Your reasoning sounds good about staying away from the Lamictal and Seroquel.

What’s your thinking about the Xanax?

[Sheila]

Yes, in my personal and professional experience, psych meds tend to create some degree of developmental arrest in people. It varies from person to person, but they do seem to slow down development, growth, healing.

Don’t assume you won’t find a good therapist. Some therapists in training are naturals, very empathic, and they are more passionate about their work than burnt out advanced therapists. :)

Sometimes, it’s possible to find a private practitioner who’s good who accepts Medicare, but your best bet is a training clinic.

Another thing to look into is the post-graduate training clinics – see if there is a psychoanalytic institute or Jungian institute. At a post-graduate training institute, you get therapists who have advanced degrees and are licensed and experienced, but are pursuing additional training, and they’re sliding scale.