"As Soon As You Stop Wanting Something You Get It."

[Luc]

Do you have any ideas. I'd like to hear your thoughts of what living with the illness means to you...

Sure, Mike. I'll write more about it later today.

[Mike]

Its on this thread Mike

http://survivingantidepressants.org/...-demotivation/

Thanks, Iggy.

[Luc]

Well said, Luc. I think this whole time I've been putting off living until I am well vs just giving it a go while I am sick. I guess I am still trying to decide what "living with the illness" would look like. What changes I would make.... In part it would be not waiting to be well, just doing the best I can with what I got. I would also work to stop pining for the symptoms to go away. On a good day I might push myself a little more and take small risks, small experiments... On a bad day though it gets harder... I have days were I am literally in agony and so it's harder to just carry on... I suppose on these days I can change my criteria for what living with the illness is, to count my small accomplishments. I could also practice coping techniques (e.g., relaxing into the discomfort, letting go of frustration, and flowing with it).

I would probably need to start with saying that the extreme type of psychological conditioning that is WD, has made me more and more, at times to the point of automatism, switch the thoughts from what I don’t have into what I do have, or its sub-type; what more I do have comparing to what I less had months or years ago, and that the “glass-filling” will continue.

Also, in recent years, I’ve been realizing more and more that “thought” can really influence “matter”. Before that, I laughed at these kind of theories. Not anymore. On the one hand, we have the DR/DP we are experiencing and one of its *possible* causes being the pineal gland calcification linked to the fluoride present in this type of drugs (I do realize it’s more complex than this, but it surely must be one of the reasons at least), and the power of meditation techniques/vibes/frequencies, which, if properly developed and applied, would, in the not-so-distant future open gates to entirely new methods of assisting our bodies in their self-healing, on the other. I still need to find this Youtube video with a Buddhist monk, who said (I’m probably paraphrasing) “what you create on the inside will happen on the outside”. This way of approaching the subject helps a lot, too.

That said, when in earlier stages of WD, and when WD is really severe, any thought of even trying to “meditate” may feel absurd; the symptoms are so intense. Of course, you can always try, but if any such action is simply impossible, you need to use the most powerful anti-WD weapon there is, which is time (this is for those who might be reading this thread now or in the future, and are now in a severe WD).

Another thing that helped me was finding something worth living for, “creating” something. For me it would be contributing all I can to this our place here. And, even with my “calcified pineal gland”, lol, (and despite it sounding a bit lofty) I can feel to what extent it is, in fact, a spiritual fight for all of us.

This last paragraph ties in well with what you wrote, Mike; “I've been putting off living until I am well vs just giving it a go while I am sick”. I SO get it. Here’s how I see it; what helps in my case, is compensating my lack of “living on the outside” (isolation going on in my “real”/more physical life, inability to do things considered so everyday by most of the “healthy ones”) by “living on the inside” as much as possible. And doing it until the next and next stages of recovery are reached. This “living on the inside” I imagine for many of us as exploring the highest floors of the Maslow’s Pyramid, or even adding more levels to it (WD forces us to do it).

Then, we already know that the worst of the worst will never be back for us. This is so important as well.

Then, the realization that the next window will, most likely, allow me to enter the next stage of the healing process… “adding piece after piece” concept again…

At the same time though, trying things out is a way to go, too. You wrote, “On a good day I might push myself a little more and take small risks, small experiments”. I feel the exact same. For a long long time, when, b/c of my “explorative” actions, I brought about a darn wave, I blamed myself terribly. But, as the improvement kept happening, even if so slowly, plus I managed to learn more and more about the dynamics of WD, there’s less and less of the blame these days. In One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, there’s this scene, in which the main character McMurphy, after having lost the bet about his being able to lift this heavy hydrotherapy console, says to others “But I tried goddamnit. At least I did that.”

I so hope you will find something that comes in handy in your own WD from among those ideas, Mike.

[Mike]

GiaK wrote this blog that may interest you aslo mike

when you say some days you are in agony...is that physical agony or mental? or both??

http://beyondmeds.com/livingwell-while-sick/

physical, cognitive, and sometimes emotional. It's very hard to characterize. Some symptoms have reliably improved, one or two are nearly gone, and there are a few that although improved continue to torture me.

[Iggy131313]

I believe with ALL MY HEART Mike, that you will continue to improve, the body and brain will continue to fight.

I think waht you are looking for is a way to find acceptance, its a very hard concept, under these circumstances especially.

there is a bit on recovery road about it

http://recovery-road.org/acceptance/

Buts thats all cliches that you have heard a thousand times Im sure.

Chralie G, said to me, release the EGO, release everything you are and it will come back to you when the time is right.

[Sheila]

Great conversation, guys.


Chris – It definitely seems like you will use your experience to help others. Maybe the timing of how things have happened has been just right for reasons we don’t know yet.

[Sheila]

Mike -- In reply to what you said to me a couple of pages back....I think it’s a balancing act between trying and surrendering. Both seem to be essential to making a good life.

It’s definitely true that I put too much pressure on myself, and I appreciate your permissiveness. I try all the time to be more self-compassionate and surrender. As I’ve told you, I even try not to try to surrender! ;)

But, I don’t see this situation as being entirely out of my control. I think there are things I can do to promote my healing. There are things I *have* to try to figure out – my feet are unlivable, and I am trying to keep my house. So, I try for a bit, and *then* I let go when I can’t see anything else to do.

Also, in general, I see w/d as requiring both acceptance – it’s not going to get better overnight – and effort – for example, you can watch people learn how to soothe themselves better over time, and it is a primary premise of IAWP that identifying and pursuing a true passion may be one of the most effective ways to promote healing.

You, too, are using a combination of acceptance – facing the day without pre-conceived ideas – and effort – you have found a passion and you work hard at it and that’s good for you in a million ways. Both tacks are fantastic.

It definitely is a process, letting go of fear. I think it’s composed of both effort and release. Kind of like the Serenity Prayer says.

[Sheila]

Also, Anita Moorjani, whom I really, really like, recovered from deadly cancer after an NDE, and she said, when you're sick, keep gently trying to do what you want to do with your life, as best you can. Just keep going.

[Mike]

Mike -- In reply to what you said to me a couple of pages back....I think it’s a balancing act between trying and surrendering. Both seem to be essential to making a good life.

It’s definitely true that I put too much pressure on myself, and I appreciate your permissiveness. I try all the time to be more self-compassionate and surrender. As I’ve told you, I even try not to try to surrender! ;)

But, I don’t see this situation as being entirely out of my control. I think there are things I can do to promote my healing. There are things I *have* to try to figure out – my feet are unlivable, and I am trying to keep my house. So, I try for a bit, and *then* I let go when I can’t see anything else to do.

Also, in general, I see w/d as requiring both acceptance – it’s not going to get better overnight – and effort – for example, you can watch people learn how to soothe themselves better over time, and it is a primary premise of IAWP that identifying and pursuing a true passion may be one of the most effective ways to promote healing.

You, too, are using a combination of acceptance – facing the day without pre-conceived ideas – and effort – you have found a passion and you work hard at it and that’s good for you in a million ways. Both tacks are fantastic.

It definitely is a process, letting go of fear. I think it’s composed of both effort and release. Kind of like the Serenity Prayer says.

This all makes perfect sense and I hope I didn't come on too strong.

I just reached a certain point where I got so sick of talking about all this stuff, endless hypothesizing about very far flung and unhelpful ideas, banging my head against the wall with the medical profession, supplements, etc. At some point I just had to ask myself where is this getting me?

Accepting my symptoms at any given moment is one of the only things that's brought me any measure of relief so it's something I am going to explore further. I think it's about a lot more than simply acknowledging the reality of the illness...I wish this were a situation in which I could wage a battle and fight to take my life back. I've got a whole lot of that in me. I've shown that over and over again in other periods of my life but it just isn't getting me anywhere with this so I have to look for another way. I can't put my life on hold any more. I have to somehow learn to live this and I think that in and of itself may be healing.

[Mike]

I would probably need to start with saying that the extreme type of psychological conditioning that is WD, has made me more and more, at times to the point of automatism, switch the thoughts from what I don’t have into what I do have, or its sub-type; what more I do have comparing to what I less had months or years ago, and that the “glass-filling” will continue.

Also, in recent years, I’ve been realizing more and more that “thought” can really influence “matter”. Before that, I laughed at these kind of theories. Not anymore. On the one hand, we have the DR/DP we are experiencing and one of its *possible* causes being the pineal gland calcification linked to the fluoride present in this type of drugs (I do realize it’s more complex than this, but it surely must be one of the reasons at least), and the power of meditation techniques/vibes/frequencies, which, if properly developed and applied, would, in the not-so-distant future open gates to entirely new methods of assisting our bodies in their self-healing, on the other. I still need to find this Youtube video with a Buddhist monk, who said (I’m probably paraphrasing) “what you create on the inside will happen on the outside”. This way of approaching the subject helps a lot, too.

That said, when in earlier stages of WD, and when WD is really severe, any thought of even trying to “meditate” may feel absurd; the symptoms are so intense. Of course, you can always try, but if any such action is simply impossible, you need to use the most powerful anti-WD weapon there is, which is time (this is for those who might be reading this thread now or in the future, and are now in a severe WD).

Another thing that helped me was finding something worth living for, “creating” something. For me it would be contributing all I can to this our place here. And, even with my “calcified pineal gland”, lol, (and despite it sounding a bit lofty) I can feel to what extent it is, in fact, a spiritual fight for all of us.

This last paragraph ties in well with what you wrote, Mike; “I've been putting off living until I am well vs just giving it a go while I am sick”. I SO get it. Here’s how I see it; what helps in my case, is compensating my lack of “living on the outside” (isolation going on in my “real”/more physical life, inability to do things considered so everyday by most of the “healthy ones”) by “living on the inside” as much as possible. And doing it until the next and next stages of recovery are reached. This “living on the inside” I imagine for many of us as exploring the highest floors of the Maslow’s Pyramid, or even adding more levels to it (WD forces us to do it).

Then, we already know that the worst of the worst will never be back for us. This is so important as well.

Then, the realization that the next window will, most likely, allow me to enter the next stage of the healing process… “adding piece after piece” concept again…

At the same time though, trying things out is a way to go, too. You wrote, “On a good day I might push myself a little more and take small risks, small experiments”. I feel the exact same. For a long long time, when, b/c of my “explorative” actions, I brought about a darn wave, I blamed myself terribly. But, as the improvement kept happening, even if so slowly, plus I managed to learn more and more about the dynamics of WD, there’s less and less of the blame these days. In One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, there’s this scene, in which the main character McMurphy, after having lost the bet about his being able to lift this heavy hydrotherapy console, says to others “But I tried goddamnit. At least I did that.”

I so hope you will find something that comes in handy in your own WD from among those ideas, Mike.

Lots of good stuff here, Luc. I'll get back to you when my heads a little clearer and i've had to time to think about this. Having a really tough time right now. Talk soon,

-Mike